Fisking “Goth Music will Destroy Your Child”

So there was this.  I want to think this is parody but I’ve heard every argument made here told with complete seriousness, just not usually all together.

As usual, the original is in italics, my comments are in bold.

Goth is a deplorable type of heathen culture

Actually, I am a Heathen (sort of) and the two are not the same.  Heathens, per modern definitions, are those who believe in and worship the Germanic/Norse Gods, also known as Asatru.  I don’t particularly believe in them–don’t particularly believe in any gods–but I try to follow the ways of modern Asatru as exemplified in the Nine Noble Virtues. (Yes, I know they are found nowhere in the surviving Lore, but as a concise distilling of the virtues that are exemplified in that lore, they serve.)  I know some Goths who are Heathen.  Most are not.

that glorifies everything that is vile and unholy.  The dictionary defines “Goth” as: A crude uncouth ill-bred person lacking culture or refinement.

Which Dictionary is this from, I wonder?

Merriam Webster says:

  1. :a member of a Germanic people that overran the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian era

  2. often not capitalized
    a :rock music marked by dark and morbid lyrics
    b :a fan or performer of goth

  3. a person who wears mostly black clothing, uses dark dramatic makeup, and often has dyed black hair

Nope, nothing in there about being crude, uncouth, ill-bred, or lacking culture or refinement.

This pretty much sums up the Goth culture today.  Goth glorifies things that are sick, nasty, improper, freakish, and downright demonic.  Goth is NOT just the music.  In fact, not all Goths listen to Goth music. 

Well, that depends.  Some define Goth as only those who are fans of the music.  I tend to be a “big tent Goth” and include all who are fans of the aesthetic.

The Goth subculture is a contemporary subculture found in many countries. It began in the United Kingdom during the early 1980s in thegothic rock scene, an offshoot of the post-punk genre. The Goth subculture has survived much longer than others of the same era, and has continued to diversify. Its imagery and cultural proclivities indicate influences from nineteenth century Gothic literature along with horror movies and -according to César Fuentes Rodríguez and Carol Siegel- to a lesser extent, the BDSM culture.

Well, here’s they actually say something right  Many define the origin point of Goth with the release of Bauhaus’s song “Bela Lugusi’s Dead”.  And, yeah, all of those influences are present to some extent.  But not every Goth follows all of those.

And look at that scary phrase “cultural proclivities”.  Oooh.  This just means people tend to have things in common (while having a great deal of diversity as well).  The main commonality is an appreciation of the “dark” in counterpoint to the light.  Consider the line from the otherwise mediocre movie “Bruce Almighty”, where Morgan Freeman explaining why just answering “yes” to all the prayers was a bad idea:  “If you want to paint pictures like that, you’ve got to use some dark colors.”

Goth’s, in my experience get that.  And it’s reflected in their, in our, outlook.

The Goth subculture has associated tastes in music and fashion, whether or not all individuals who share those tastes are in fact members of the Goth subculture. Gothic music encompasses a number of different styles. Common to all is a tendency towards a lugubrious, mystical sound and outlook. Styles of dress within the subculture range from death rock, punk, androgynous, medieval, some Renaissance and Victorian style clothes, or combinations of the above, most often with black attire, makeup and hair.

SOURCE: Goth subculture – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, well that explains it.  Not able to think for himself, he instead relies on grabbing a quick bit from Wikipedia before going on about crap he doesn’t know the first thing about.
The term “Goth” refers to all categories of Gothics, from Emo ‘Goths’ to black metal ‘Goths’ to vampire ‘Goths; from thrasher ‘Goths’ to punk ‘Goths’ to industrial ‘Goths.’  “Goth” is just a word the media uses to group a certain type of people together.

Emo is not Goth.  Black metal is iffy.  Punk is not Goth.  That idiots like this bozo lump them together just underscores their own ignorance; it doesn’t make it so.

The Goth culture includes Emos/ punks/ Wiccan witches/ self-abusers/ thrashers/ grungers/ heavy metallers, et cetera.  This includes the Marilyn Manson, AC/DC, Smashing Pumpkins, Van Halen and Ozzy Osbourne crowd as well.

And it includes Christians, Agnostics, people who rescue animals, vegetarians, meat-eaters, and many others.  And while some folk into metal are also Goth, neither are all “metalheads” Goth nor are all Goths “metalheads”.

Also AC/DC is not Goth.  Van Halen is not Goth.  Ozzy Osbourne is not Goth.
 
Goth causes teenage girls to become whores,

The truth is if you look at Goths, actually look at them, you’ll note that they’re usually in couples, serious long-term relationships.  This is bullshit.

depresses kids to the point of cutting themselves,

While some depressive individuals may find themselves attracted to the dark aspects of Goth, it does not cause their problems.  The biggest cause of those problems, frankly, is poor parenting.  But you can’t admit that, can you?  You can’t consider the beam in your own eye so you look for a mote in someone else’s to blame.  You whited sepulcher, outwardly clean but inwardly full of all manner of corruption.

and turns otherwise normal kids into Columbine shooters.  The Goth culture is obsessed with death and the darker side of life, which is clearly evidenced in Goth music.

The dark side is part of life.  People deal with death.  Have you never lost someone you cared about?  Have you ever had bad things happen to you and wondered why?  Have you ever wondered if anyone else felt the pain you did?

Perhaps you haven’t.  Perhaps you’ve lived a charmed life where you’ve never felt the pain of loss or hardship.  Or perhaps you’re so wrapped up in your imaginary friend in the sky that reality never touches you.

I, however, am not.  And so when I’m feeling down or depressed, I can listen to Goth or metal and I feel better because someone else has felt what I feel.  Someone else understands.

Goth is of the Devil.
 
Goth in itself is a mental illness, a sickness of the soul, mainly affecting teenagers in the same way as schizophrenia would, although to a greater extent.  Its symptoms range from isolation and negativity to aggression and hate for humanity, depression, violent outbursts, low self esteem, self-loathing, self-harming and suicide.  Many Goths turn to a life of crime to feed their addiction to drugs, sadism, violence and perversion.

Wow, that’s breathtaking.  You just make shit up, don’t you?  You might find a few isolated cases but here’s a hint.  The plural of “anecdote” is not data.

You might want to Google “Confirmation Bias”.  Never mind. Here.  I’ll do it for you.

CONFIRMATION BIAS
 
There is a theme running through all these different types of gothic groups, and a common fashion and dress that all tribes of Goth wear.  The clothing is usually dark and sinister looking, sometimes called the ‘gothic uniform.’

You can’t possibly have looked much at Goths to think there’s anything like a uniform.  Yeah, dark colors are common.  But sinister is only in your own mind.

Are all things dark “sinister” to you?  Careful how you answer because it will be used against you.

Goth women often wear black lip stick and paint their eyes so dark with mascara that they look like vampires.

I’ve never met an actual vampire.  I don’t know what they might look like.  Oh, you mean Hollywood’s depiction of vampires, right?  But note that Hollywood depiction comes from a romantic ideal.  The resemblance is simply because they both draw from the same romantic ideal.  Some Goths (and only some) carry that farther and actually dress as vampires with fake fangs and everything.  But, again, that’s drawn from the Hollywood depiction of Vampires as romantic figures.  Take that up with Hammer Films and Anne Rice among others (neither of which are Goth).

Goths are all obsessed with death and despair, with terror and violence, and most Goths use drugs as a form of everyday life.

More bullshit.  Goths cover a wide range.  Most are just ordinary people with an aesthetic that you neither like nor understand.  I’ve known Goth pacifists.

When Sophie Lancaster and her boyfriend were assaulted and Sophie was murdered it wasn’t the Goths that resorted to violence.

You, no doubt, would be right in that crowd, kicking and beating on two teenagers who never did anything to you.

Some abuse their children, perform Satanic rituals, and drink human blood.

So do some Christians (some of the things I’ve seen “Christians” do to their children is as bad as any “Satanic ritual”).  And many Christians, through the Eucharist and the Miracle of Transubstantiation believe that they are actually drinking the blood of Christ and eating his flesh.

As for drinking human blood, I’ve got to tell you, when I had nasal surgery a lot of the blood went down that way.  Made me physically ill, not from any horror or distaste, but because, as my doctor explained to me, human blood is an emetic.

Some Goths consider the sharing of body fluids like small amounts of their own blood, to be a form of sharing as or even more intimate than sex.  Not my thing but, hey, so long as everyone’s consenting and this is almost always a matter between committed couples so is no more likely to spread blood borne pathogens than when you and your spouse boink without a condom.

You see, one thing that Goths frequently have that you don’t is a very strong “live and let live” philosophy.

They recognize your right to be a conceited, self-righteous douchebag.

Goths would have us believe that the Columbine Massacre was just an isolated incident; however, here are some alarming statistics:

1991
NORWAY – Vocalist of Mayhem commits suicide. The guitarist Euronymous, upon finding him, takes pictures of his bloody corpse for their album cover, and collects pieces of his skull to make necklaces out of.
1992
NORWAY – Church burnings and murders by Nazi Goths in Norway following Euronymous, lead guitarist of gothic black metal band Mayhem calling on fans to be terrorists for their anti-Christian cause.
NORWAY – Bart Faust, bassist of Goth band Emperor, murders a homosexual.
1993
USA – satanic murders of three innocent little children by Goth monster Damian Echols in West Memphis, Arkansas.
NORWAY – Euronymous murdered by Goth ‘friend’ Varg Vikernes, guitarist of Goth band Emperor.
1994
SWEDEN – Jon Nodtveidt, singer of Goth black metal band Dissection murders man.
1995
USA – Murder of 15 year old Elyse Pahler by Satanist Goth teens Royce Casey, Joseph Fiorella, and Jacob Delashmutt who idolized metal band Slayer and had conspired to kill a virgin girl as a sacrifice to Satan.
Goth Brian Bassett shoots and kills his parents before drowning his 5 year old brother, then proceeds to kick their corpses to the music of silver chair.
1996
USA – The infamous Vampire Clan Murders.
1997
Goth Satanist Luke Woodham brutally beats and stabs mother to death before going into school and killing 2 and injuring 7.
Kimberly Wilson, age 20, her 17-year-old sister, Julia, and their parents, William and Rose Wilson brutally murdered by sick Goths Alex Baranyi and his best friend, David Anderson, both 17.
1998
ITALY – Beasts of Satan cult, Goths into heavy metal, murder 2 teenagers.
1999
USA – 15 dead in the Columbine High school massacre, carried out on the anniversary of Hitler’s birthday by two Nazi obsessed Goths.
2001
USA – World Trade Centre destroyed by plans drawn up 2 year previously by Dylan Klebold, one of the terrorists from Columbine.
GERMANY – Three Goth teenagers ages 14, 17 and 18 committed suicide after forming an online satanic death sect in an internet chat room.
2001
GERMANY – Bride of Satan satanic murder case.
2002
UK – Vampire teenager slaughters frail old woman and drinks her blood.
UK – Alan Menzies also murders man after becoming obsessed with sickening Vampire film ‘queen of the damned’, He claims the queen of the damned ordered him to do it.
2003
UK – Goth Jodi Jones aged 14 brutally murdered by her evil Marilyn Manson obsessed Gothic boyfriend.
Two self-styled vampires jailed for conducting a campaign of religious harassment against a vicar and his family. Scott Bower and Benjamin Lewis were found guilty of waging the three-month campaign against the Reverend Christopher Rowberry, his wife Karen and children Hannah, 15, and Simon, 17.
2004
USA – Lely high school students caught planning copycat Columbine.
Teen Rachelle Waterman from Craig, Alaska masterminds murder of her own mother. She roped two former boyfriends into doing the deed. Her mother Lori ended up bludgeoned to death and her body burned out in the Alaskan wilderness.
2005
Beasts of Satan cult finally stand trial for their evil crimes.
USA – Orlando, Florida, a Goth named Christopher Dunsmoor killed his fiancée, Fawn Trivette. Dunsmoor nearly beheaded Fawn, using a samurai sword.
USA – 105 Year old Minnesota United Church burned to the ground in a hate crime against Christianity by three sick Goth teens on the birthday of Varg Vikernes, a black metal musician now serving time in prison in Norway for murdering a band mate and burning several churches. Vikernes has inspired dozens of copycat church burnings around the world.
USA – Goth Ben W. Fawley, age 38, told Richmond, Virginia police that he killed Virginia Commonwealth University freshman, Taylor Behl, age 17 while having “rough sex.” Though 38, Fawley looked 17 and made it a point to dress like a 17 or 18-year-old Goth kid.
USA – Ten killed in Red Lake High School massacre by Goth Nazi Jeffrey Weise.
Goth David Rodriguez, 18, and a companion abducts 2 children in order to perform satanic ritual, allegedly to get his girlfriend back. Erika Castillo, 6, and her older brother, Oscar, were snatched outside a Little Village library on Friday. Rodriguez planned to carve a pentagram in the girl’s chest.
USA – California, Goth Scott Dyleski, age 16, arrested for the brutal bludgeoning murder of Pamela Vitale, age 52. Vitale was the wife of well-known defense attorney and legal analyst for various cable news outlets, Daniel Horowitz.
These are but a few of thousands of recorded mainstream news events involving Goth killers.  To say that the Goth subculture isn’t dangerous is to be very ignorant indeed.  Goth is of the Devil. 

Inigo Montoya Moment.  “You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.” A rather modest list (compared to the number of murders that have happened worldwide in the same period) isn’t “statistics”.

Also, just because you say “Goth” doesn’t mean they actually are.  Yes, the claim that the Columbine murderers were “Goth” was bruited but other students of the school refuted that claim.  It simply wasn’t true.  Just because you attribute something to “Goth” doesn’t make it so. 

Go back up to where I googled “Confirmation Bias” for you.

The Dangers of Rock Music

Over 30 years ago a woman named Dorothy Retallack conducted experiments using music, plants and their combined environment. These results are famous.

Taking two identical sets of plants in two separated but identical rooms, she exposed them to music. The first set of plants were played quiet placid subdued devotional “religious” classical music, while the other set were subjected to loud aggressive rock music played at full deafening volume 24 hours a day. The plants exposed to rock grew away from the music source, withered and died, while the plants that were played religious music grew towards the music source and thrived.

The lesson? If rock music attacks and kills plants, what does it do to people? I think it’s rather obvious – it does the exact same thing!  Rock music attacks the nervous system, affecting one’s emotional state.  Is it any wonder why Americans, now more than ever before, are blowing-up in anger, flying off the handle, committing suicide, and losing their minds?

Bullshit on multiple levels.  First off others have performed the same experiment, mostr famously the Mythbusters team.  You know what mythbusters found with experiments actually better controlled than in this ridiculous “study” you cite.  They found that the plants exposed to metal actually grew faster than those exposed to classical music.  Oh, and they found that “talking”, whether positive or negative, led to more growth than no talking.

As for the “now more than ever” that’s utter and complete kark.  Violent crime in America is down.  For the last several years it’s been hovering at about half the peak it reached in 1993.  You wouldn’t know that to listen to the media, but the media is lying to you.  Department of Justice statistics tell a different story.

You are using bad science to “explain” something that just isn’t happening

Goth is particularly dangerous because the lyrics to the music often glamorize killing, brutality, sadism, masochism, pedophilia, torture, freakism, and all sorts of heathendom. 

And once again, you have demonstrated that you haven’t actually listened to Goth music.  I’m not surprised.   You declare it “evil” without any actual knowledge and that gives you all the excuse you need to not actually research (real research, not the confirmation bias–see above–crap that you do) to see whether your assessment actually matches reality.

The music is often characterized by relentless yelling and screaming, freakish embellishments of the voice, evil sounding backgrounds, etc.  There just a bunch of sickos.  Magician, Criss Angel, has made millions of dollars with his “Mind Freak” series, and he definitely fits in well with the Goth freak culture.  Criss Angel’s theme song is characterized by his own voice screaming “mind freak” repeatedly at the top of his lungs.  This is Satanic.

More Inigo Montoya here.  Just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it “Satanic”.  Or are you one of those:  There’s vigorous Bible-thumping and there’s “everything else” with “everything else” being of the Devil and, therefore, Satanic.

It’s people like you who drive more people away from Christianity than all the actual Satan worshipers who ever lived.

We read in the Bible in Philippians 2:5, “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.”  God doesn’t want us to walk around singing “mind freak” (which a person cannot help but hear repeatedly in their memory after watching one of Criss Angel’s shows).  Satan is the freak of freaks.  Jesus called Satan the father of all liars (John 8:44). 

Ah, you are one of those.

Goth is a Destructive Influence on Children

A mother who looks and dresses like a sick circus freak, who harms herself in front of her children, who is obsessed with death and suicide, who holds BDSM (i.e., Bondage, Domination, Sadism, and Masochism) parties that consist of bondage and rape, is hardly a fitting role model for children.  That is why Christians ought to be taking a stand against this heinous evil in society. 

And all these things which you attribute to “Goth” which aren’t actually any part of the Goth culture, but rather baggage that some people bring with them.  Often times I’ve seen people with severe depression and suicidal tendencies come to Goth culture and find people who actually understand them, who don’t sneer and look down their noses at them, and simply having people to talk to who do understand them makes them feel better and. they. get. better.

I shudder to think what would happen if someone depressed or suicidal came to you.  You, no doubt, would tell them to pray and “give themselves to Christ.” Some people that works for.  Most it doesn’t.  You’d simply dismiss those others as not having tried hard enough or not being sincere.  “No True Scotsman” is a wonderful fallacy for people like you. (No, I’m not going to Google this one for you.  You’re a big boy.  Do it yourself.)

Oh, and as for self-harm and BDSM?  You might just want to look up the history of the practice of self-flagellation in the Christian religion.  Mote and Beam time again. 

Goth is often associated with sexual immorality and pedophilia.

That you associated it in your demented mind doesn’t make it so.  Immorality?  Most of the times when you see Goths they’re always in couples, long term committed relationships.  From what I’ve seen of Goth couples, they’re at least as successful as Christian ones.

You keep making up things and then using the things you make up as “evidence” for other things you make up.  That’s not even fallacious.  It’s not connected enough to reality to rise to the level of fallacy.

And now we are finding websites that sell gothic clothing for children as young as kindergarten age, so that their sick gothic parents can dress their kids as Halloween freaks just like themselves.

Again, the only reason that’s “bad” is stuff you made up.  Parents generally dress their children according to their own tastes at least until the children are old enough to decide for themselves what they like.

Some websites are even selling ‘bondage’ clothing for babies!  For babies?  Don’t you find that wrong and sick?  Not just from a Christian point of view, but just plain ole common sense.  No wonder children are so messed up nowadays, because their parents are freaks.

First off, I’m going to call “Citation needed” on that.  But let’s go with it.  You might want to look up “swaddling”.  Pediatricians recommend it, restricting the babies movements (which possibly feels more like being in the familiar environment of the womb to them) to help calm them.  Babies have no shyness about crying when they’re unhappy of uncomfortable.  That this calms them down, soothes them shows that it is not uncomfortable or painful to them.  As for somebody choosing something that they find decorative (assuming you didn’t just make that up as you have much else) so what?  The baby doesn’t care.

It is not difficult to let Lucifer into your home (1st Peter 5:8).  The Apostle Paul prophesied in 2nd Timothy 3:6 of the future time when lustful men would creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lust.  From the witchcraft of Sabrina, to the lewdness of Hugh Hefner; from the whores of Desperate Housewives, to the demonic New Age indoctrination of Oprah Winfrey; from the homosexuality of The Ellen DeGeneres (Degenerate) Show, to the lasciviousness of nearly every prime time TV program―Americans have opened the door wide for Satan to creep right into our homes.  In fact, Satan doesn’t even need to creep his way into our homes anymore, because the average American willingly INVITES Satan into their home through the DEVILVISION!  Most people don’t care what they watch anymore.  The TV does the exact OPPOSITE of what the Word of God does.  Television DESENSITIZES people to sin; whereas the Word of God SENSITIZES us to sin… that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful(Romans 7:13).

Thump.  Thump.  Thump.  Thump that Bible.

But you want to know what’s worse than even the “Devilvision”?  The Internet!  Why anybody, anybody at all can put stuff there without any filter whatsoever.

You need to get off it, right away, lest you let Satan into your house.
 Goth and Satanism

Photo to Right: Album cover for one of the top Goth bands, “The Cult.”  Ram and goat horns are extremely popular amongst Satanists.  Paul McCartney even produced an album in 1971 titled, “RAM,” to show his allegiance to Satan.  Check out the Rolling Stones’ 1973 album, “Goat’s Head Soup.”

Wow, that’s breathtaking.  You just kind of make things up.

You want to know another thing that’s popular among Satanist?  The Bible.  I’ve generally found Satanist better versed, and better able to cite the Bible than most Christians.

Here’s the thing, that some groups of people like something does not define that something.  Otherwise all the time a certain holy man spent with Publicans and Sinners would itself be condemnatory.

I could publish an entire website just addressing the demonism which saturates the Goth movement.  The Goth culture is the consequence of a nation that has turned its back on God.  Rock n’ Roll was seemingly innocent back in the 1950s (but it wasn’t).  Then in the 1960s we saw the British Invasion, bringing with it the Rolling Stones, the Beatles, and other heathen bands.  Illegal drug abuse flourished in the 1960s, fornication became epidemic, and a nation decided that the Bible was incompatible with their new amorality.  So in 1962 the Bible was banned from the Public School System.  The 1970s naturally led to the passing of legalized abortion laws, to address the epidemic fornication problem (and all the unwanted babies).  The 1970s began with the introduction of Satanism and occult imagery into much of the Rock music.  The Church of Satan was founded on 06/06/66 by Anton LaVey, whose picture appears inside the Eagles’ Hotel California album cover. 

LaVey in the cover?  False That some people claim to see Lavey there is nothing more than faces in clouds.

Goth deliberately crosses all the lines of proper dress, manners, refinement, and decency.

And yet, unlike you, every Goth I’ve known has been courteous and well mannered.  The dress is more likely to hearken back to Victorian and Edwardian attire, hardly lascivious.

  Goth picks up where Rock ‘n’ Roll leaves off, offering a course in advanced rebellion, sexual immorality, and Satan worship.  The Goth crowd is truly living at the bottom of the barrel of life, right where Satan wants them.  Wiccan witches are naturally attracted to Goth, because they are Luciferians themselves, who worship hundreds of pagan deities; but vehemently deny the Lord Jesus Christ. 

More utter bullshit.  Really, it’s so disconnected from reality that it’s not even wrong.  I could eat a bowl of alphabet suit and shit a more coherent string of words than that.

Most Goths are in committed, usually monogamous relationships.

Some witches are Goth, some aren’t.  Some Goths are witches, some aren’t.  Witches aren’t “Luciferians”.  They don’t believe in any of the figures of the Christian religion.  They don’t believe in your Trinity.  And they don’t believe in your adversary god.  Somebody believing differently from you does not mean they believe in your adversary.

Let me give you the words of another Christian, from another day: “I abjure you in the bowels of Christ to consider the possibility you may be mistaken.”

Pride is a sin, and you are full of it.

Conclusion

Goth is a degenerate form of subculture, that brings with it hate, loneliness, heartache, and woe.  It is sin-centered music (if you dare call it music).  If you are a parent, please steer your teens away from this perverted culture of death and hatred.  If your daughter comes home from school one day with dark mascara around her eyes, and wearing black clothing, she’s being influenced by the wrong crowd at school.  Be a parent!  Put your foot down!  Be as loving and kind as possible, but if that doesn’t work, then be aggressive and say “NO!”  It will be a cold day in Hell before any child of mine is going to tell me what, where, when, or how they’re going to run their life.  As long as I’m paying their bills, and they reside under my roof, then I make the rules!  That’s being a good parent.  If you train your children while they’re still young, then you will eliminate a lot of necessary conflicts when they become teens.  I am amazed when I hear teenagers cursing their parents.  That shouldn’t be.  The key is tough love.  If your kids KNOW that you love them, then they’ll give you their heart.  So many parents neglect their kids, by allowing the TV to raise them, and letting them run the streets all hours of the night.  I hate that commercial which says, “It’s 10 o’clock, do you know where your child is at?”  That’s a lot of bologna!  You had better know where your child is at AT ALL TIMES!!!

Do not allow your children mom and dad to associate with Goths.  I am a stickler for knowing exactly who my children are hanging around.  I don’t want my children associating with homosexual teenagers.  I don’t want my children hanging around creeps, freaks, or troublemakers who are headed for destruction.  Goths are infatuated with vampires, witches, the color black, torture, self abuse, and anything freakish.  Goth is extremely luring to lonely teenagers who don’t seem to fit in anywhere, because Goth is all about being a social misfit, i.e., a freak.  Parents are mostly to blame for not spending quality time with their teens.  Listen parent, you ought to be best friends with your teen.  A teenager who is loved by their parents won’t have a need to identify with others who are in their same lonesome boat.  If you don’t make time for your kids, the Devil certainly will.  Notice I said “make” time.  Life is hectic nowadays, and there’s always too much to do, and there’s never enough money to pay the bills.  Forget the overtime!  You spend some quality time with your teens on a regular basis. 

If you are into Goth yourself, then I ask you as a friend to come to the Lord Jesus Christ, who is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.  You don’t need to identify with the Devil’s crowd anymore.  Goth represents everything that is evil and unholy.  Aren’t you tired of running from God?  God loves you, no matter who you are, or what you have done.  God loves sinners.

I’ve gotta know.  When you wipe the spittle from your keyboard, does it leave the screen extra clean?  Does self-righteousness add an extra luster to the pixels?

As for your “advice”, how about “no”?  Does “no” work for you?  It doesn’t?  Then how about “fuck yourself with a rusty chainsaw you self-righteous, bible-thumping, smegma-lipped twatwaffle”?

And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

 

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16 thoughts on “Fisking “Goth Music will Destroy Your Child””

  1. Emo is not Goth.

    As I used to say in my radio days (my goth/industrial show was Dark Etiquette), Elder Goths don’t let angsty teenagers become emo…they are of us.

  2. Well, that’s the most entertaining fisk I’ve read since the last time Correia tangled with Damien, the Guardian’s Village Idiot. Seriously, she thinks AC/DC and Van Halen are Goth? Hope she never gets a look at *my* iPod playlist . . . Heck, by her standards I’m surprised Johnny Cash doesn’t qualify as “Goth.”

  3. This ‘fisking’ was rather obviously written while angry and seems to channel somewhat the spirit it claims to fisk. Many of its points therefore fall flat, detracting from more legitimate ones.

    – When the original writer compares goth style to vampire, it is petty to remark there are no real vampires. (If someone objected to a craze for dressing as Klingons – because Klingons are violent, say -objecting that none of us have ever seen a real Klingon and they’re dressing as homo appliqué – Hollywood’s idea of an alien – would hardly be relevant.)

    – That crime has fallen in the US in recent decades, when there are goths, is no more meaningful than the equally undoubted fact that more crimes have been committed by goths than in the decades before there were any goths to either commit crimes or refrain from doing so. You would recognise the absurdity of using the latter as an argument.

    – Objecting that goths don’t have a “uniform” is again petty. Goths have a style. (If there were a style of dressing up like knights in armour, and someone spoke of these modern-day “knights” having a uniform, it would not mean much to say that they mixed and mismatched every kind of armour from Roman to Renaissance.)

    – It was Cromwell who beseeched people who disagreed with him to consider they were mistaken. He was less given to beseeching himself. Not a role model I’d recommend to the original writer, who seems to have enough of it already. 🙂

    The fisking came across as so angry that by the end it really fell worse than flat when you mockingly asked about his cleaning the spittle off his screen, since you did not seem so lacking in that department yourself.

    The original writer clearly knew little of goths (confusing goth with emos – wow!) and used a lingo, and arguments, unlikely to persuade any but the persuaded. I did not feel your fisking was likely to quiet the doubts of any doubtful. Fortunately I don;t have any, but if I meet those who do I’ll be describing my gothic goddaughter, not referencing your article.

    This reaction offered FWIW.

    1. This ‘fisking’ was rather obviously written while angry

      Ah, the old tone argument. “You sound angry.”

      it is petty to remark there are no real vampires

      Snarky. You misspelled “snarky”. And it was used as a lead-in to the real argument where both the hollywood conception of vampires and the Goth fashion share a common origin in Romanticism.

      That crime has fallen in the US in recent decades, when there are goth

      No attempt was being made to claim that the existence of Goths was a causative factor in the decrease in crime. What was being rebutted was the claim that the crime is on the rise because of Goths. Another time (in another post of mine) I dealt with that same claim being made regarding “violent” video games. Elsewhere it’s “taking God out of the schools”. Very common it’s “the easy availability of guns”. All of them fail on one simple truth: violent crime isn’t rising. The original wanted to use Goths to “explain” the rise, but there’s no rise to explain.

      Cromwell

      That Cromwell, a Christian, was not a great role model was a large part of the point. It’s called irony.

      1. Yep. Definitely tone policing.

        That and taking snippets out of context to try and score cheap points.

        David, this is someone who was looking for a reason to fight, and since he couldn’t really find what he was looking for, he decided to manufacture some.

    2. Missed responding to this one:

      Objecting that goths don’t have a “uniform” is again petty. Goths have a style.

      Words have meanings. “Uniform” and “Style” are different words because they mean different things. Imagine if I had gone onto base, back when I was in the military, with fatigues pants, a “dress blues” shirt, and a mess dress jacket. The “dressing down” by my first sergeant would have been epic.

      Words have meanings and conflating them in an effort to score points is disingenuous at best.

  4. Purple stripy hair is wrong. Goth is a “heathen culture” that “glorifies everything that is vile and unholy”. You can gussy up your language however you like to justify glorifying the vile and unholy if you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that’s exactly what goth is.

    I particularly like purple stripy hair’s condescension in “Oh, well that explains it. Not able to think for himself, he instead relies on grabbing a quick bit from Wikipedia before going on about crap he doesn’t know the first thing about.” Pro-tip: wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources on most things on the net, but since it correctly identifies the ridiculousness of purple stripy hair’s vile and unholy beliefs, it needs to be scorned.

  5. Fisking the kind of “Christian” who obviously wishes they could be writing Chick Tracts is like wrestling with a pig. Their pulpit is already turned around and aimed straight at the choir.

    1. Internet Argument is a spectator sport. The “true believer” you’re arguing with, or in this case fisking, is not the target. Instead you’re aiming at the undecideds, or at least the persuadable, in the peanut gallery. A strong secondary purpose is to show your own side that they are not alone.

      Plus, well, I’m a writer (among other things). Writing something like this is a good warm up exercise. 😉

  6. I’m a couple months late to this party, but…

    I certainly hope that this isn’t reflective of your opinion of Christianity, in general. Not all of us are quite so judgemental.

    I’m a Free Will Christian. This means that I believe that you make choices for yourself, and you live with the consequences, good or bad. And, it ain’t my business.

    Christ summed up the Commandments as a whole; we are to love one another, as Brothers in Him. So, I try to reflect that.

    Lastly, we are not to judge each other. This is not to say that we can’t discern whether a particular BEHAVIOR is sinful or not, but we aren’t supposed to judge the one committing the sin. Not our job.

    I think that many Christians have forgotten these things, and have muddled the distinction between judgement and discernment.

    Yeah, this post seemed a bit angry. But, I think that to some degree, the anger was justified.

    I do agree; if you want to speak (or write) against something, put forth some effort to know what the hell you’re talking about.

    1. Oh, no. My comments were directed to this particular individual and those like minded. I generally get along with most Christians. I just have a problem with the “Sister Bertha Better than You” types, the ones who have completely forgotten the mote/beam thing. 😉

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