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So there was this:
As usual, their text is Bold, my response is Italics.
“Stop saying ‘off the reservation’. It’s a reference to the pass system that was in place restricting Native people from leaving without permission.”
Actually, it was a reference to Natives arming up in groups and attacking folk.
“Stop making ‘1/16th, ‘great-great grandmother’, etc. jokes. All of these reference blood quantum, a system designed to ‘breed out the Natives’. Indigeneity isn’t defined by a percentage, fraction, etc. Quit policing Indigenous identities and quit joking about genocidal tactics.”
First off, citation needed on any kind of declared “system” to “breed out the Natives”. Second, percentages? My initial DNA tests declared that I was 2% sub-Saharan African. So do I get to declare myself African American? Did you look at my profile pic to determine if I could? Okay, later revision of the results removed that (and it seems that someone at 23&Me was just sticking that into people’s results to “mess with racists”, which itself calls into question the accuracy of results), but it still says 0.2% “broadly Western Asian & North African”, which would appear to be people of Arabic ancestry (derived from the Islamic conquest of those areas back in the Middle Ages). So, can I claim to be Arabic American or is that not a “quantum.”
Upshot is, who cares? I am me. These various background things that went into making me who I am are background. I am who I am. Tell the people… (Okay, Bible joke.)
Stop Calling things your “Spirit Animal.” You don’t have one. Only Indigenous people from specific nations have spirit animals.
Now this, right here, is highly insulting to my ancestors. My (Father’s side) Germanic/Norse forebears certainly had Totem (spirit) animals. Likewise, on my mother’s side, my Celtic forebears had an animistic religion where folk could share rapport with the spirits of animals.
Just because you are only familiar with American Indigene beliefs in spirit animals does not mean that that is all that there was.
Stop making dreamcatchers. They are sacred Anishinaabe culture and are not cute trinkets, crafts, etc. Buy them from Anishinaabe artists.
That’s nice. Shall we go into the many things that were sacred and cultural to my ancestors that have become trivialized in modern society? How about the Fighting Irish and their logo? All the iconography and trite decorations around St. Patrick’s Day? Or maybe Oktoberfest? And maybe, just maybe, some of the practices centered around a little holiday known as Yule?
Since the dawn of time people have looked at things produced by other cultures and thought “hey, that’s neat” and made copies. Archaeologists trace contact between cultures by noting the spread of cultural styles–pottery, art, religious iconography, all sorts of things. This widening of cultural horizons is a good thing because insular cultures that neither adopt from others or are adopted by others tend to stagnate and die.
Stop buying those little cloth ‘teepees’ for your kids/pets/whatever. Also stuff with tipi prints.
See above about dreamcatchers. Same thing applies here. Also, note that conical tents with an opening at the top is not unique to American Indigenes (specifically to “Plains Indian” cultures). They don’t get to declare sole ownership of something that has been independently used by multiple societies.
And maybe you can pick a spelling? “Teepee” or “Tipi.”
Quit referring to your “tribe”. Enough with the “Bride tribe” nonsense and all the rest. Stop trivializing tribal affiliations.
“Tribe” is a word that existed long before the European encounters with American indigenes. That the word for groupings of related peoples was used for such groupings among indigenes does not give them exclusive ownership of the term.
Humans are tribal. It’s in our very nature. We divide into “tribes”. The wonder of Western Civilization is not how much tribalism remains, but that we’ve been able to overcome it to such an extent, or rather, that we have been able to expand so broadly as to what counts as “our tribe.” Indeed, the wonder of American civilization in particular is that we have been able to define our “tribe” in terms of a core set of beliefs–individual liberty, the supremacy of the individual over the state, self rule and self responsibility–which, of course, certain groups (and I’m pretty sure you are among them) are trying to undermine.
Same thing, by the way, with “chief.”
Don’t wear “War paint”. Don’t put a feather in your hair. Don’t dress up as Native people or characters.
And, again, American Indigenes aren’t the only ones who painted themselves for going into combat. Look up “woad” as one example. American Indigenes aren’t the only ones who wore feathers as hair ornaments. Feathers were common personal adornment through most of history for most of the world. American Indigenes do not get to claim sole ownership of these historically common things.
As for dressing up as Native people or characters, do you apply that to others? Do you object to Viking costumes? Leprechauns? Toga parties? Dressing up as a “jester” (parti-colored tunic and hose, which was actually a fairly common 13th and 14th century Century English dress)? How about that costume I saw of a pregnant nun? Is it your contention that only Native people are too weak to be able to deal with folk taking enough interest in them to actually dress, however imperfectly, like them, even if it’s deliberate mockery (see “pregnant nun”)? Or do you extend that to other POC’s as well? Is it only European people you consider strong enough to deal with people dressing up like their ancestors and cultural icons–even in deliberately mocking fashion (again see “pregnant nun” as one example).
Stop referring to your meetings/side discussions/parties as a “pow wow.”
Languages borrow words from other languages all the time. English is, at root, a Germanic language and yet something like 70% of its vocabulary derives from Latin (largely by way of medieval French, thanks to Duke William of Normandy) but also with Greek, Spanish, Slavic, and a host of other languages thrown in. Why should American Indigenes be excluded from the mix? Why single them out that words cannot be borrowed into English? The meaning changes from what the Natives used it for you say? You mean like “Sanguine” has shifted from “bloody”/”bloodthirsty” to “cheerfully optimistic”?
Languages have always borrowed from other languages, and shifted both meaning and pronunciation over time. That’s just the way language is. You might as well object to the river running out of Pittsburgh being called the “Ohio” which is a word “taken” from the Natives and mispronounced in the bargain “Oyo”.
Or perhaps you do.
Stop supporting sports teams that use racist terms and logos and caricatures of Indigenous people.
Sigh. Vikings. Patriots. Fighting Irish. Pirates. Buccaneers. Saints. 49ers. Brewers. Padres. Yankees. Canadians. Senators. Canucks. Golden Knights. Cavaliers. Warriors.
People don’t name sports teams after things they disrespect. When they name it after a group of people it’s because they represent courage, honor, and fighting spirit, or it’s about some kind of local connection. Sometimes that’s more about the mythology than the reality (“Pirates,” and “Buccaneers” for example) but the idea is there. And, yes, the imagery tends to be stereotypical to the point of caricature. That’s because the point is to be instantly recognizable. That doesn’t make it “racist”. It makes it effective. No real Viking would wear a helmet with grab handles on it and yet the Vikings logo has a horned helmet because that’s what people associate with Vikings. It’s not the sports team’s job to educate people in the true history and culture of Scandinavia but to give people a recognizable image to cheer for.
And I’ll simply note that it was an American Indigene who designed the former logo for the “Washington Sports Team.” It was white folk, like you, who demanded they get rid of it.
Which, then, were truly “anti-indigenous”?
The Writer in Black 
Two thoughts.
First, many American Indian Tribes allow people to claim Tribal Membership if they can show ancestry from a member of said tribe (based on the Tribe’s historical listing of their tribe). Perhaps, this “person” should talk to those tribes about their “evil” practice. 😉
Second, one of the “things” that certain Liberals scream about is the “White Savior” in Fiction (see link below). IE: Those poor non-whites (in some cases non-humans) can’t solve their problems so a Heroic White comes along to help them. This woman is playing “White Savior”. 👿
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_savior
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FSU pays the Seminole Tribe a stipend for the use of their name.. It has for decades; LONG bbefore the wokeratti decided Native Tribes were automatically offended by the use of their names/images in connection to sports teams. A few years ago some group or another came after FSU over this and guess who immediately said STFU… The Seminole Tribal Rep.. That’s who.
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These wokesplainers are constantly being offended on behalf of folk who don’t want their “help”. The Land-O-Lakes logo which so offended them recently was artwork done by a Native American. Didn’t matter to the wokies. They know far better than the people involved what’s “best” for them.
And that is racist.
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I had to explain that Nancy Green was a well respected professional and lady representative.
Didn’t slow down the folks who dearly wish to erase her very existence, because they dislike the Aunt Jemima brand.
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This is one reason why I love the Leftards assault on these images . Since their temper tantrum started, many black (Aunt Jemima) and American Indian (Land ‘O’ Lakes) images have been removed from public view. Land O Lakes has instead put images of their workers on product boxes and lo and behold, most of them are white people!
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I would have far more sympathy if the “natives” didn’t completely rip off our culture every day. They wear “white” clothes, drive “white” cars, speak “white” languages, eat “white” food. Perhaps they should stop trivializing our culture. Or perhaps this proves the point that this whole line of argument is stupid. Thanks for the rebuttal so that next time some idiot says…
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“Cultural appropriation” is actually just cultural cross-fertilization in action
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And like cross-fertilization, it allows evolution by speeding up change and giving options, allowing the newly created sub-cultures to find the most effective method(s, usually) to live.
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Reblogged this on Spin, strangeness, and charm and commented:
What some call “cultural appropriation” I’ve been calling “cultural cross-fertilization” for a while. It’s just another mechanism of evolution in action. (One special form that has been fascinating me for a long time is the evolution of language.) Below is a great fisk.
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“Stop referring to your meetings/side discussions/parties as a “pow wow.”
“Discussion” from Old French
“refer” from Old French, referer
“party” from Old French, partie
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In Western movies people often have “parleys”, from the French “parler”, to talk.
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My response to this post would have been “F O and die.”
Not very elegant I’ll grant you, but entirely appropriate I’d say. I don’t know that there is much point in trying to engage these thuggish simpeltons in point by point logical refutation except perhaps to influence “nonaligned” third party audience. These are cult beliefs and have zero basis in morality. “Cultural appropriation” is NOT a crime, NOT immoral, NOT (usually) “disrespectful” in any sense that harms anyone other than Karens beiang offended on everyone else’s behalf. Moreover, the fact that these brain-dead little totalitarian cult members have NO standing, NO position, NO legal, professional, economic, or moral authority to purport to issue “proper conduct” orders to ANYONE is in itself a perfectly sufficient explanation and justification for saying “I don’t think so and you may p*ss off now!”
Who the heck do these little two-bit tin-pot Adolfs think they are?
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As a friend of mine is wont to say “Internet argument is a spectator sport.” You don’t argue to convince the “true believer” you’re arguing with. They’re beyond persuasion. You’re arguing to 1) sway some of the folk reading the discussion who might be convinced by the other side’s arguments if left unchallenged and 2) to give ammunition for your own side. There are about four million people born in the US every year. That’s four million people who have never heard one side or the other’s position entering the fray every single year. Those are the people we try to reach.
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There’s also the chance that someone reading has been either falsely informed or it simply didn’t ‘click’ before.
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Yes. There are lots of people out there who are not irretrievably convinced of the “other side” and it is those I try to reach. I have to believe that otherwise it’s pretty much all over and a true dark age looms. Perhaps I’m wrong. But if so, there’s no real harm done in my effort. But if I’m right, and there are people who can still be convinced, then great harm indeed can come from not trying to reach those people.
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*waves hand*
Part of why I urge folks so strongly to talk is because there are a lot of cases where I had only heard one side– I didn’t even know there was another side. In some cases, if I wasn’t an obnoxious cuss, the response when I tried to get more information on finding out that any other side EXISTED would have driven me back into the commonly accepted falsehood.
Sure, the noisy ones are usually obnoxious, and it can often feel like you’re working your rump off only to be snarked at by folks theoretically on your own side– but part of that is because seeds take time to grow.
You WANT the folks who are quiet, and will think before leaping. They’ll stick around, if you can persuade them. Mobs are really hard to steer and don’t tend to last, anyways.
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These are cult beliefs
^^THIS^^
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“Shut up, serious people are having a discussion” would be better.
But to say that to the vapid bitch you’d need to be on twitter. Which would might not be your first mistake, but it is a mistake.
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Hey Chaylady,
– stop talking
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FSU pays the “Seminole Tribe” an annual stipend for the use of the name and they get a % of the merchandizing… They ALWAYS cash the annual check.
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Stop making dreamcatchers. They are sacred Anishinaabe culture and are not cute trinkets, crafts, etc. Buy them from Anishinaabe artists.
*waves glittery plastic dreamcatcher sent to her by the Lakota St. Joe’s children’s home*
Is she hissing like a vampire at a cross, yet?
The Lakota are one of the tribal groups that generally isn’t put in that group.
Your point about sacred items being used as fashion accessories is also accurate– which is why they have to go the “white people can’t have a culture” route, it’s too commonly done.
***********
If she were engaged in an attempt to erase all evidence of a culture from history– what would she do differently?
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Oh, and the “1/16th” and “great-grandmother” jokes she’s whining about are aimed at Elizabeth Warren and her insanely racist ilk, who think that such an ancestry confers some sort of power on a person.
It’s the folks pushing the “shut up” narrative that insist that I am a product of genocide because my great grandmother married a man of the “wrong” race. Everybody else is either bored or thinks family stories are cool and will start swapping genealogy stories. (Some of the stuff from the old census records are a hoot! Especially when you start comparing one year to the next.)
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Someone once asked Dennis Prager how he’d feel about them naming a sports team “The Jews”. His response was that he’d be thrilled to have a stadium full of people cheering “Yay, Jews!”
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People did a couple of “Caucasians” T-shirts (one loosely based on the Cleveland Indians logo, another loosely based on the Washington Redskins) in order to “show how offensive it is.” And yet the near universal response among my white friends has been “Damn, that’s awesome! Where can I get one?” I ordered one of the Cleveland Indians based ones (even though I would almost never wear it because of the color scheme) and, well, they had received so many orders it had crashed their system and it took them a while to catch up. There’s a lesson there for those who want to learn it.
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Better than what some stadiums full of people have yelled….
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A more appropriate title: “Karen explains it all, Vol. XXXIV”
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Quit referring to your “tribe”.
“M.O.T” – Colloquial term for Jews, primarily used by American Jews.
The word Jew and Judaism come Judah, one of the twelve tribes (dare I say it?) of Israel. Most Jews today are descended from the tribe of Judah, though those of priestly Aharonic and Levitic descent are from the tribe of Levi.
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My spirit animal is a T Rex.
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Just because you are only familiar with American Indigene beliefs in spirit animals does not mean that that is all that there was.
And just because you’re woke does not mean you aren’t rockbox ignorant.
Also, note that conical tents with an opening at the top is not unique to American Indigenes
See above.
Though, putting your wigwam on top of a wagon so your lazy butt doesn’t have to tear it down and rebuild it is, I think, unique (Mongols).
Look up “woad” as one example.
At least the picts had the courage of their convictions about the power of their magic, running into battle bare-butt naked (and usually scaring the bejeebers out of the Romans). No pajama boy loincloths for THOSE warriors!
You mean like
“Preference” being redefined by a dictionary publisher to be a bad thing?
It was white folk, like you, who demanded they get rid of it.
To paraphrase my first comment: just because you’re woke does not mean you aren’t racist.
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